The future of the gearcheck forums
by Kilee » 30 Mar 2015, 07:12
The main thing that always put me off the gearcheck forums was attitudes like the above. I personally would be scared to post on the GC forums. I would be scared to post a video of my UI. Because at times I feel like I'm just putting myself on a chopping block so that people can dismantle me and tell me how bad everything about me is. Even if it's true, I think some more politeness when it comes to dealing with people would help. I know people sometimes lose their cool, but this needs to be kept in check from time to time, imo.
Hygeia: I'm not saying you're wrong about the general nature of many posts/posters. Just that I don't think it's helpful to tell them that every chance you get. Try to at least be a little understanding that not everyone is as good as you. And try to give someone the benefit of the doubt. At least let them prove themselves to be "lazy or entitled" before labeling them as such.
by Hygeia » 30 Mar 2015, 07:21
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by Klik » 30 Mar 2015, 15:24
Very nearly all questions posed in any sort of "help me" forum can be answered by (1) carefully reading the guides, (2) combing through important threads on the website or (3) doing some log diving, for which there are guides on the site; as a result, pretty much any question theoretically could be answered with "lol lern2read". Perhaps a more accurate and productive prescribed function for the current gearcheck forum is to address the needs of people who feel "I'm lost! Please point me to the proper resource" forum.
While we're discussing the future of this forum, I want to bring up something that's bothered me about it for quite a while. The forum is labeled "gearcheck", a term carrying the underlying assumption that the stats you enchant/roll on are a major determinant in your performance. Any seasoned player knows this isn't true, especially today with how pretty much anything but stacking versatility will get you "close enough" to optimal for most of the playerbase. Much more important is how you play, which is what pretty much any intelligent thread in the gearcheck forum is about.
tldr: can we rename it to strictly the "help me" forum? edit: or something that doesn't include "gearcheck"
It's not your gearing choices or your choice among viable talents.
It's your Movement, Positioning, Planning, DoT Uptimes, Voidform Uptime, Mind Blasts per Minute, Void Bolts per Voidform-Minute, Shadow Word: Death Sniping, Void Torrent Timing & Shadow Crash Timing.
by Shardstorm » 30 Mar 2015, 15:52
Klik wrote:tldr: can we rename it to strictly the "help me" forum?
I think that's a horrible idea. There's too much entitlement already without naming it so. But you're right, gear check is misleading.
Personally, I think the Gearcheck forum should be a barren wasteland. We're not obligated to help anyone posting here, and I've gotten to the point where I don't read it any more. I like it, because it's a place to direct the constant 'help me' posts that pop up in useful threads or other sub-forums, and if we just consolidate them all there and as a community ignore them I think we'll be happier for it. Brutal, but honestly it's where I've gotten to.
by Zione » 30 Mar 2015, 16:03
Hygeia wrote:Users looking for help can barely be bothered to read stickies and faqs, how do you expect them to download software, use it and upload a video? It will never happen.
I have no interest in helping those people, and I think a lot of people feel the same way, so why are we catering to them? Make the gearcheck forums a place where you can get help if you actually care and let the rest stay bad.
by Kilee » 30 Mar 2015, 17:18
On a personal note, I just feel like there's more effective ways to help people with what little free time I have.
And, I digress. There's a few very useful things those forums do. One is help with looking at logs - I can't really think of another site or software program that does that in quite the same way. Another is that the forum serves as a sort of "aggregate" for the general state of shadow. One can look at it and read through the posts and get a sense for what people are struggling with or what they really need help with. For people who are maintaining FAQs or writing guides, it's a good resource to know which topics are the most important and relevant to hit.
by Veiled » 30 Mar 2015, 23:48
Concerning the forum and how people respond in it, I'll say this: I feel it's perfectly acceptable to be frustrated with anyone who doesn't take the time to read the information that we work hard to create here.
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by padkipz » 31 Mar 2015, 02:20
I think the crux of the problem is that there is no structure to the posts allowed. Drye has a good stickied post in that forum giving links to the current guides, and a brief overview of how to construct your post, but people rarely seem to follow it, and when they don't, the post is allowed to stay and people will reply to it as they see fit, despite Drye's post stating that threads without an armory link and logs will be locked/deleted. It could really do with being more moderated.
This ties in quite well with the changes Veiled is making at the moment; as you're looking for more moderators already, would it be possible to look for specific people willing to help moderate the gearcheck forum? Clean up posts that don't adhere to a decent structure (the posts purely saying "omg my dps sucks help"), aim to be the first to give constructive feedback, even if it's a case of saying "your gear seems to be on the right tracks, but I've noticed you're not doing xandy, refer to this part of the shadow guide and practice your rotation". This would then give people who want to help a chance to provide their input, and make it so the other people who don't want to continue helping people who can't help themselves not feel like they're required too.
Going back to people not helping themselves though, there have been times where I have been really frustrated with some of the responses - in particular the "use the search functions" response - purely because the search function right now is not that effective without delving quite deep in to the advance search features. For instance, I wanted to search the forums for a post mentioning professions in WoD, and which are best for SPriests, so I used the basic search bar at the top and search for "best professions wod", thinking that would quite easily link me to a thread of two about which professions people have gone, unfortunately when you search for certain words (and in this case "best", and "professions"), the search function automatically ignores them because they're too common. I could see this turning a lot of people off the search function right away because they don't know of the advance features. It would great if this could be looked at in conjunction to the changes to the forums and the gearcheck forum.
I think at the end of the day, people need to take a step back if they can't deal with the frustrations of saying the same thing multiple times to different people. I wouldn't like to be someone new to playing shadow and asking for a bit of guidance on these forums right now, as with the way it stands, you have a high chance of getting your head blown off and never wanting to return here.
by Charuo » 31 Mar 2015, 09:10
Try googling this: "best professions wod site:howtopriest.com"
by Ashleycakez » 31 Mar 2015, 09:56
padkipz wrote:I think the crux of the problem is that there is no structure to the posts allowed. Drye has a good stickied post in that forum giving links to the current guides, and a brief overview of how to construct your post, but people rarely seem to follow it, and when they don't, the post is allowed to stay and people will reply to it as they see fit, despite Drye's post stating that threads without an armory link and logs will be locked/deleted. It could really do with being more moderated.
We originally handled the forum by locking a thread that was not posted in accordance with the sticky. I believe we also stated "please use the sticky" when we locked the thread. The tears that ensued were real.
Now we ask that players review the sticky and edit accordingly without locking the thread. I often neglect this if it looks like the poster already received relevant feedback from another user.
Moderation, even when handled well, is not taken to kindly by this community in my personal experience - and I try to be level headed and unbiased when it comes to moderating threads.
I'd personally prefer the form method:
Armory (logged off in gear for spec):
Screenshot of UI in combat:
That's all that's needed for good feedback imo. Video is too demanding a request from the average player. I think UI screenshots would suffice to see if player with terrible uptime on a buff is even tracking that buff at all, for example.
I want to help people in that forum more but when I have to use up my free time, which is already hardly existent, to track down information they are too dense to include, I cannot justify the effort.
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