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[H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Bach » 03 Oct 2012, 06:56

New poster here. Excuse my ignorance if this question has been answered ad nauseum; have read Kilee and Twintop's breakpoint chart and accompanying posts and the rest of the forums and could not find an answer.

Question: If the ideal Tier 14 non-goblin haste breakpoint (8085) is unobtainable through current gear -- which it is for me -- is the highest PP gained through reforging any haste above the VT+1 breakpoint (2021) into crit? It is my understanding that the basic premise of a haste plateau is that any haste above that, but below the next breakpoint, is a wasted stat. Please correct if this basic premise is wrong.

Thank you much.

Armory link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/k ... h/advanced.

As you can see, I reforged as close to the VT+1 breakpoint as possible and ignored socket bonuses that would provide the added haste, as they would still not put me over the 8085 breakpoint at the moment.

Thank you in advance, and thank you all for your tireless work at Shadow Priest theorycrafting.

-Bach
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Drye » 03 Oct 2012, 07:10

If you get the gear in my bis pre raid make up, the haste break point is attainable. But stat values don't change once you hit the break point or before it. It stays haste > crit > mastery, haste just doesn't have such a dominance.
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby inad316 » 05 Oct 2012, 04:28

Drye wrote:If you get the gear in my bis pre raid make up, the haste break point is attainable. But stat values don't change once you hit the break point or before it. It stays haste > crit > mastery, haste just doesn't have such a dominance.


As you said you can attain that break point in pre-raid but i am also curious to know what is the benefit of the haste that is in between since no one gets an extra tick.
Example, finally finished rep grinding to get neck with 444 haste, haste went from 4000 to 4444. even tho stat values dont change b4 or after a break point, what is the 444 haste going to give to my dps, what spell will benefit from it?

because what i always did was target a loot item from our stat weight list. once i grab it, then I see 'oh i'm not on the plateau yet' then reforge it to 2nd stat. next week get another new item, see if i can reach plateau, if yes reforge correctly if no reforge remainder to 2nd stat. This is why your answer confused me and i am wondering what is the benefit of the in between haste.
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Woaden » 05 Oct 2012, 07:06

VT and SW:P benefit the most from it in the long run as they'll tick on a faster timeline that will have added many extra ticks by the end of the fight. Compare a single target Sim of 4,000 vs 4,444 Haste and see the difference in SW:P and VT alone.
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Mikedexter » 16 Oct 2012, 15:13

Sorry if this is a difficult question to answer, but how far out your way should you reach to keep the haste breakpoint? I have a couple upgrades that would net about 500int together, but drop me under my haste cap. Is there a value to this Cap like the Set Bonuses have on the Gear page?
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Drye » 16 Oct 2012, 16:38

The 8085 haste breakpoint is roughly 360 PP. So depending on how much haste you need to get there and the loss of int needs to succeed a 360 pp gain.
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Stasis » 16 Oct 2012, 19:38

And remember that Haste has intrinsic value regardless of the breakpoint spikes.

Assuming it's worth around 0.4 of Int ordinarily, then 500 Int would equal 1250 haste before even taking the breakpoint into consideration. Factoring in the breakpoint you'd be at parity or worse I'm guessing? Unless you're only losing a little haste + the breakpoint to gain 500 Int.

If the +Int gear has other higher stats then you'd need to factor those in too.

Maybe just sim both and see what Simulationcraft says. (It's what I do and saves me having to think about math...)

I'm actually kinda in the same situation. Most of the gear I'm picking up from raiding doesn't have haste, and all of my preraid gear was chosen specifically to reach 8085. So I'm constantly juggling gear back and forth. Feels a bit like playing a melee in Wrath in a way. Where every upgrade would affect your hit/expertise so you need spares for every slot just in case.
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby the0dark0one » 20 Oct 2012, 16:27

So here's what I'm confused about. Let's suppose I hit the 8085 haste breakpoint. I am not yet at the spell hit cap. I get a trinket with hit on it. Should I still reforge the hit into haste even though I am beyond the breakpoint and not yet at spell hit cap?
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Zarqa » 20 Oct 2012, 17:16

I know Drye is working on a post on this (can't find it if he already posted), but can someone confirm that this reasoning is correct please?

- Reaching 8085 haste will gain you 360PP
- Before and after that specific point, Haste is worth 0.4475PP (Twintop value, personal simcraft might give you a slightly different value)
- So, clearly giving up less than 360 int to gain 8085 haste is a straightforward DPS gain
- However, since each haste you gain over int is also valued at 0.4475 you only lose 0.5525PP by swapping out haste for int.
- 360/0.5525=651.58

Therefore, you can give up 651 int for haste to gain the Haste cap and see an increase in DPS. This is mostly attained through gems.
(to verify: (651x0.4475)+360=651)

After that, when your haste increases you should swap back haste-containing gems for int-containing gems piece by piece, making sure you stay above 8085 haste.

Correct?

Edit: reworked math and final numbers
Edit2: at the gear levels where you need gems to reach the haste cap, haste probably is worth less than 0.4475, lowering the int you can swap. Can Kilee/Twintop/Drye maybe give a better PP value for this?
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Veiled » 21 Oct 2012, 01:15

Gearshifter wrote:If I can't reach the 8085 haste breakpoint, should I not even bother and just hit hitcap, then reforge straight into crit?


No... Haste > Crit even before the breakpoint.
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